Comments on: For whom? http://www.raggedclown.com/2008/04/24/for-whom/ It's just a shadow you're seeing that he's chasing... Mon, 15 Mar 2010 05:55:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Ragged Clown » Blog Archive » In the laughter of children http://www.raggedclown.com/2008/04/24/for-whom/comment-page-1/#comment-8676 Ragged Clown » Blog Archive » In the laughter of children Wed, 14 May 2008 02:35:25 +0000 http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=638#comment-8676 [...] three weeks ago, I wished I knew how Alan Kay felt and Lo! Alan Kay left a comment (Alan Kay!!!!-Ed). Today, I wish I knew what David Brooks means. If he leaves a comment, I’ll [...] [...] three weeks ago, I wished I knew how Alan Kay felt and Lo! Alan Kay left a comment (Alan Kay!!!!-Ed). Today, I wish I knew what David Brooks means. If he leaves a comment, I’ll [...]

]]> By: Jeffrey Fredrick http://www.raggedclown.com/2008/04/24/for-whom/comment-page-1/#comment-7300 Jeffrey Fredrick Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:50:56 +0000 http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=638#comment-7300 Don't know if AK will read the comments, and I haven't Read The Fine Article linked to yet, but I think it is a mistake to focus on the skills that are being taught (reading, math, science, music, etc). My biggest concern w/standard education is how the skills are taught -- there's too much emphasis on teaching vs. assisting kids in learning. Too much of a checklist approach rather than trying to tap into passion. Not that all kids shouldn't be exposed to all subjects, but I agree with Kevin that the presentation of the subject should be optimized for the kids who love it. (And taught by people who love it!) Don’t know if AK will read the comments, and I haven’t Read The Fine Article linked to yet, but I think it is a mistake to focus on the skills that are being taught (reading, math, science, music, etc). My biggest concern w/standard education is how the skills are taught — there’s too much emphasis on teaching vs. assisting kids in learning. Too much of a checklist approach rather than trying to tap into passion. Not that all kids shouldn’t be exposed to all subjects, but I agree with Kevin that the presentation of the subject should be optimized for the kids who love it. (And taught by people who love it!)

]]> By: Alan Kay http://www.raggedclown.com/2008/04/24/for-whom/comment-page-1/#comment-7291 Alan Kay Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:29:42 +0000 http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=638#comment-7291 It's worth thinking about why public schooling was set up. The main aim was to help grow citizens who could be in the same "high conversation" needed for a representative democracy. This is why teaching everyone to read in the 19th century was a central goal, even though more than 97% of the population was involved in farming. Similarly, the reason to teach the entire population math and science today is not primarily vocational, but to try to have enough citizens who can think in modern terms about modern issues. If we are trying to make great machinists, pianists, or basketball players (etc.) then we want to concentrate on developing talent and skills in the very best students. If we want to develop great citizens in a democracy then we have to get the less talented and skilled over the necessary thresholds. These very different goals are not at all incompatible, but our education system is very poor at dealing with either, and especially with both. As far as computing is concerned, it would help a lot if people in our field even had enough perspective to be deeply dissatisfied, and enough energy and talent to make things much better. It’s worth thinking about why public schooling was set up. The main aim was to help grow citizens who could be in the same “high conversation” needed for a representative democracy. This is why teaching everyone to read in the 19th century was a central goal, even though more than 97% of the population was involved in farming. Similarly, the reason to teach the entire population math and science today is not primarily vocational, but to try to have enough citizens who can think in modern terms about modern issues. If we are trying to make great machinists, pianists, or basketball players (etc.) then we want to concentrate on developing talent and skills in the very best students. If we want to develop great citizens in a democracy then we have to get the less talented and skilled over the necessary thresholds. These very different goals are not at all incompatible, but our education system is very poor at dealing with either, and especially with both.

As far as computing is concerned, it would help a lot if people in our field even had enough perspective to be deeply dissatisfied, and enough energy and talent to make things much better.

]]> By: Tom Kirkley http://www.raggedclown.com/2008/04/24/for-whom/comment-page-1/#comment-7290 Tom Kirkley Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:09:37 +0000 http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=638#comment-7290 I went to Jr. High and High School with Bruce Horn. I think he was one year older than me. I remember Bruce showing me his modcomp simulator (~1973?) that inspired me to write my first language simulator (on an HP2000 in BASIC?!). I started going up to PARC and programming in SmallTalk around 1975(?). I wrote a Space War game with little flying ships that could turn, accelerate and fire torpedoes. All the ships and torpedoes were SmallTalk objects. The objects could bounce off the sides of the screen or wrap around to the other side. The torpedoes would blow up when they were close to some other object. I think there was gravity. This was one of my favorite projects. I will be forever thankful to Dan Ingalls who brought me up to PARC, let me use an ALTO computer, and tutored me in SmallTalk. These were events that helped shape who I am today. --Tom Kirkley I went to Jr. High and High School with Bruce Horn. I think he was one year older than me. I remember Bruce showing me his modcomp simulator (~1973?) that inspired me to write my first language simulator (on an HP2000 in BASIC?!).

I started going up to PARC and programming in SmallTalk around 1975(?). I wrote a Space War game with little flying ships that could turn, accelerate and fire torpedoes. All the ships and torpedoes were SmallTalk objects. The objects could bounce off the sides of the screen or wrap around to the other side. The torpedoes would blow up when they were close to some other object. I think there was gravity. This was one of my favorite projects.

I will be forever thankful to Dan Ingalls who brought me up to PARC, let me use an ALTO computer, and tutored me in SmallTalk. These were events that helped shape who I am today.

–Tom Kirkley

]]>