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	<title>Comments on: A Theory of Morality</title>
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	<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/</link>
	<description>It's just a shadow you're seeing that he's chasing...</description>
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		<title>By: Ragged Clown &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Basis of a Sound Society</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-6846</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragged Clown &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Basis of a Sound Society</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-6846</guid>
		<description>[...] waiting for Jeff&#8217;s philosopher to give me some context for my musings on morality, but while we [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] waiting for Jeff&#8217;s philosopher to give me some context for my musings on morality, but while we [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chasing Shadows &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Tao te Kev</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Chasing Shadows &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Tao te Kev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-153</guid>
		<description>[...] I posted this When we create laws to prevent immoral behavior, we make society less moral [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I posted this When we create laws to prevent immoral behavior, we make society less moral [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chasing Shadows &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Basis of a Sound Society</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>Chasing Shadows &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Basis of a Sound Society</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 02:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-132</guid>
		<description>[...] Chasing Shadows     BiggerBigger Font Size :: SmallerSmaller Font Size :: LeftLeft Align :: JustifyJustify Align :: RightRight Align :: BookmarkBookmark This Page :: PrintPrint This Page      &#171; A Theory of Morality [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chasing Shadows     BiggerBigger Font Size :: SmallerSmaller Font Size :: LeftLeft Align :: JustifyJustify Align :: RightRight Align :: BookmarkBookmark This Page :: PrintPrint This Page      &laquo; A Theory of Morality [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-131</guid>
		<description>&gt; So, now you’re arguing that if someone comes upon a behavior through rule enforcement, it negates there ever being a moral weight to their decision?

Replace &quot;negates&quot; with &quot;diminishes&quot; and, yes, that&#039;s pretty much what I am arguing. 

If you make a choice without thinking about it you are not making a moral choice - and that&#039;s what rules require us to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>> So, now you’re arguing that if someone comes upon a behavior through rule enforcement, it negates there ever being a moral weight to their decision?</p>
<p>Replace &#8220;negates&#8221; with &#8220;diminishes&#8221; and, yes, that&#8217;s pretty much what I am arguing. </p>
<p>If you make a choice without thinking about it you are not making a moral choice &#8211; and that&#8217;s what rules require us to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Heiser</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Heiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Aug 2006 00:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-130</guid>
		<description>So, now you&#039;re arguing that if someone comes upon a behavior through rule enforcement, it negates there ever being a moral weight to their decision? How about children who are too young to understand why going barefoot is necessary, but then later in life question it and end up agreeing on moral grounds? It sounds like you&#039;re bemoaning rules as a method of knowledge-delivery, rather than diminishing morality in a community. I agree that asking &quot;why?&quot; every once in a while is good policy. This reminds me of a story I once heard. A man and a woman get married. The woman cooks a roast and serves it, but she&#039;s cut the ends off and those are her new husband&#039;s favorite pieces. She said her mom taught her that way, and she assumed it was so the meat would cook better in the center. The next time the woman talks to her mother, she asks her why she taught her to cut the ends off the roast before cooking it. Her mother says she doesn&#039;t know, that&#039;s how *her* mother taught her to do it and agreed that it probably had to do with cooking it fully. They both ask the grandmother next time they&#039;re all together and the grandmother laughs and says &quot;That darn pan was always too short for the roasts&quot;. I guess you shouldn&#039;t equate rules with morals until you ask why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, now you&#8217;re arguing that if someone comes upon a behavior through rule enforcement, it negates there ever being a moral weight to their decision? How about children who are too young to understand why going barefoot is necessary, but then later in life question it and end up agreeing on moral grounds? It sounds like you&#8217;re bemoaning rules as a method of knowledge-delivery, rather than diminishing morality in a community. I agree that asking &#8220;why?&#8221; every once in a while is good policy. This reminds me of a story I once heard. A man and a woman get married. The woman cooks a roast and serves it, but she&#8217;s cut the ends off and those are her new husband&#8217;s favorite pieces. She said her mom taught her that way, and she assumed it was so the meat would cook better in the center. The next time the woman talks to her mother, she asks her why she taught her to cut the ends off the roast before cooking it. Her mother says she doesn&#8217;t know, that&#8217;s how *her* mother taught her to do it and agreed that it probably had to do with cooking it fully. They both ask the grandmother next time they&#8217;re all together and the grandmother laughs and says &#8220;That darn pan was always too short for the roasts&#8221;. I guess you shouldn&#8217;t equate rules with morals until you ask why.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-129</guid>
		<description>Many of the people who would have taken off their shoes whether the rule existed or not - moral people - are completely unaffected by the existence of the rule. No net change in morality.

Some of the people who would have habitually broken the rule before it existed - immoral people -  might decide to take off their shoes with the threat of punishment. Others might continue to break the rule. No net change in morality.

Others - the amoral - may have not been aware that taking their shoes off is better for society. We could encourage them to take off their shoes by education (make them more moral) or by the threat of punishment (appeal to their immoral desires). The latter would result in a net loss of morality.

Over time, the moral reason for taking off shoes would fade from memory. People would teach their children to remove their shoes because &quot;that&#039;s the rule and you will be punished if you do not follow it&quot;. Over time, the opportunities for moral behaviour would diminish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of the people who would have taken off their shoes whether the rule existed or not &#8211; moral people &#8211; are completely unaffected by the existence of the rule. No net change in morality.</p>
<p>Some of the people who would have habitually broken the rule before it existed &#8211; immoral people &#8211;  might decide to take off their shoes with the threat of punishment. Others might continue to break the rule. No net change in morality.</p>
<p>Others &#8211; the amoral &#8211; may have not been aware that taking their shoes off is better for society. We could encourage them to take off their shoes by education (make them more moral) or by the threat of punishment (appeal to their immoral desires). The latter would result in a net loss of morality.</p>
<p>Over time, the moral reason for taking off shoes would fade from memory. People would teach their children to remove their shoes because &#8220;that&#8217;s the rule and you will be punished if you do not follow it&#8221;. Over time, the opportunities for moral behaviour would diminish.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Heiser</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Heiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-128</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the moral obligation is diminished at all. The sum total of our moral obligations is generalized into &quot;the rules&quot;. Since we were abiding by our moral obligation before the rule existed, bringing the rule into existance doesn&#039;t automatically suplant our original reason for following it. The only people for whom it&#039;s eclipsed by the desire to avoid punishment are the people who identify themselves as part of the group, but don&#039;t really agree with all of the morals. I feel like I&#039;m seguing into the &quot;Cultural Catholic&quot; discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the moral obligation is diminished at all. The sum total of our moral obligations is generalized into &#8220;the rules&#8221;. Since we were abiding by our moral obligation before the rule existed, bringing the rule into existance doesn&#8217;t automatically suplant our original reason for following it. The only people for whom it&#8217;s eclipsed by the desire to avoid punishment are the people who identify themselves as part of the group, but don&#8217;t really agree with all of the morals. I feel like I&#8217;m seguing into the &#8220;Cultural Catholic&#8221; discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-127</guid>
		<description>You and I decided that we had a moral obligation to take off our shoes. We took off our shoes because it was the right thing to do.

Once you have made a &quot;no shoes&quot; rule, the no shoes moral obligation is diminished by the moral obligation to &quot;follow the rules&quot;. We no longer take off our shoes because it is the right thing to do. We take them off because that&#039;s the rule.

If we then add a punishment for breaking the &quot;no shoes&quot; rule we would diminish the moral obligation to follow the rules. We would no longer follow the rules because its the right thing to do. We would follow them to avoid punishment.

There is still a moral obligation to take off your shoes but it is eclipsed by the desire to avoid punishment. The result is a society that is guided less by moral obligation and more by immoral desire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You and I decided that we had a moral obligation to take off our shoes. We took off our shoes because it was the right thing to do.</p>
<p>Once you have made a &#8220;no shoes&#8221; rule, the no shoes moral obligation is diminished by the moral obligation to &#8220;follow the rules&#8221;. We no longer take off our shoes because it is the right thing to do. We take them off because that&#8217;s the rule.</p>
<p>If we then add a punishment for breaking the &#8220;no shoes&#8221; rule we would diminish the moral obligation to follow the rules. We would no longer follow the rules because its the right thing to do. We would follow them to avoid punishment.</p>
<p>There is still a moral obligation to take off your shoes but it is eclipsed by the desire to avoid punishment. The result is a society that is guided less by moral obligation and more by immoral desire.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Heiser</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Heiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-126</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s a false constraint :)

A law is a group of people proclaiming &quot;This is a part of our shared morality&quot;. Stating a moral doesn&#039;t take away the fact that it&#039;s a moral. If you and I separately decided that always walking barefoot while inside was a moral obligation because wearing shoes inside spreads disease, we share that unspoken moral. If we discover this shared morality, then find out that Jeff and Julio agree, we might make it a rule that you had to be barefoot while walking around in Chasing Shadows. It&#039;s still a moral for each of us, even though we&#039;ve codified it and stated it as a &quot;truth&quot; of our community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a false constraint <img src='http://www.raggedclown.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>A law is a group of people proclaiming &#8220;This is a part of our shared morality&#8221;. Stating a moral doesn&#8217;t take away the fact that it&#8217;s a moral. If you and I separately decided that always walking barefoot while inside was a moral obligation because wearing shoes inside spreads disease, we share that unspoken moral. If we discover this shared morality, then find out that Jeff and Julio agree, we might make it a rule that you had to be barefoot while walking around in Chasing Shadows. It&#8217;s still a moral for each of us, even though we&#8217;ve codified it and stated it as a &#8220;truth&#8221; of our community.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.raggedclown.com/2006/08/17/a-theory-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raggedclown.com/?p=106#comment-125</guid>
		<description>If there were no paradoxes, I would love them even more. 

I am slowly building up a grand theory that explains why enabling technologies are better than constraining technologies in video games.

Why don&#039;t you buy the no rules part?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there were no paradoxes, I would love them even more. </p>
<p>I am slowly building up a grand theory that explains why enabling technologies are better than constraining technologies in video games.</p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t you buy the no rules part?</p>
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